wiki:

FFmeeting

/

2014-10

This FFmeeting is scheduled to be held either on Oct 04 or Oct 11.

Pre-scheduled topics

  • VDD 2014 report and discussion, in particular with regards to relationships with libav
  • OPW program organization
  • technical development issues
  • misc topics

Ful meeting log

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct  4 17:34:05 2014

Oct 04 17:34:05 *	Now talking on #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 17:34:13 <saste>	hi
Oct 04 17:34:19 *	#ffmpeg-meeting :No topic is set.
Oct 04 17:35:29 <Loriker>	hi
Oct 04 17:35:39 *	saste has changed the topic to: The FFmpeg IRC meeting will start on this channel at 16 UTC, 4th October 2014. Topics of the day: http://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/FFmeeting/2014-10
Oct 04 17:36:48 <Loriker>	ah, okay, you are stefano
Oct 04 17:36:54 *	Loriker gives channel operator status to saste
Oct 04 17:37:47 <saste>	Loriker, hi
Oct 04 17:40:40 <Loriker>	i am Thomas, "Loriker" is just the name for irc :)
Oct 04 17:41:01 *	cehoyos (~cehoyos@84-114-78-119.dynamic.surfer.at) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 17:41:11 <saste>	hi carl
Oct 04 17:41:20 <Loriker>	hi
Oct 04 17:41:31 *	ubitux (~ux@pkh.me) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 17:41:45 *	hawken (~hawken@137.37-191-139.fiber.lynet.no) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 17:41:59 <hawken>	Hi, I'll just log it so I can read it later :)
Oct 04 17:42:06 *	kierank (sid5955@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nlgcyyqmufjlqgme) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 17:42:20 *	saste has changed the topic to: The FFmpeg IRC meeting will start on this channel at 16 UTC, 4th October 2014. Topics of the day: http://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/FFmeeting/2014-10 | The channel is public and the log will be published on ffmpeg-devel
Oct 04 17:42:24 <ubitux>	i'm not exactly sure why we don't discuss this on #ffmpeg-devel but well... :)
Oct 04 17:42:38 <saste>	ubitux, it is custom to meet on a different channel
Oct 04 17:42:58 <saste>	so that you don't have to disentangle unrelated discussion happening on ffmpeg-devel at the same time
Oct 04 17:46:15 <ubitux>	ok ok
Oct 04 17:47:22 <kierank>	who is Loriker 
Oct 04 17:48:01 *	michaelni (~michael@chello084114129144.4.15.vie.surfer.at) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 17:48:37 <ubitux>	kierank: i'd say Thomas Volkert 
Oct 04 17:49:16 <ubitux>	RTP stuff
Oct 04 17:53:03 <Loriker>	yes, that's me
Oct 04 17:53:52 *	arwa (~arwa@14.139.82.6) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 17:54:58 <saste>	I'm going to post my short report about the discussion we had in Dublin with libav, since one of the topics
Oct 04 17:55:00 <saste>	http://pastebin.com/fcke3YxE
Oct 04 17:55:12 *	c_14 (~c_14@unaffiliated/c-14/x-8913907) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 17:55:21 *	wm4 (~wm4@ip-static-94-242-209-206.as5577.net) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 17:55:33 <saste>	I'm not going to post this on ffmpeg-devel because it wasn't yet reviewed by other persons attending the meeting
Oct 04 17:55:58 <kierank>	saste: i didn't attend the meeting
Oct 04 17:56:08 <saste>	(I asked compn and Attila to review it, compn did it in real time when we still were in dublin)
Oct 04 17:56:12 *	durandal_1707 (~r@89-164-126-126.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 17:56:21 <saste>	kierank, ok, going to edit the report
Oct 04 17:56:26 <saste>	indeed i wasn't sure about you
Oct 04 17:56:31 *	llogan (~llogan@pdpc/supporter/student/pasteeater) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 17:58:02 <saste>	updated: http://pastebin.com/B1fWd4rU
Oct 04 17:58:05 *	_aca__ (~andreas@p54BB6B42.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 17:58:51 *	arwa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
Oct 04 18:00:09 <saste>	we're going to start in a few minutes
Oct 04 18:01:49 <saste>	let's start
Oct 04 18:02:01 <ubitux>	(note: you probably want to use gits or stuff like that for iterations)
Oct 04 18:02:16 <saste>	topics of the day: http://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/FFmeeting/2014-10
Oct 04 18:02:32 <saste>	1. VDD 2014 report and discussion, in particular with regards to relationships with libav
Oct 04 18:02:38 <ubitux>	(gist*)
Oct 04 18:02:46 <saste>	2. OPW program organization 
Oct 04 18:02:55 <saste>	3. technical development issues
Oct 04 18:03:04 <saste>	4. misc topics
Oct 04 18:03:17 <saste>	let's start with 1. VDD 2014 report and discussion, in particular with regards to relationships with libav
Oct 04 18:03:48 <saste>	please read this short report if you didn't already do it: http://pastebin.com/B1fWd4rU
Oct 04 18:04:04 <saste>	note that this is not to be considered yet ufficial, since it lacks reviews from the libav side
Oct 04 18:04:36 <saste>	i'll leave you a couple minutes to read it, then i can try to summarize some points
Oct 04 18:05:32 *	arwa (~arwa@14.139.82.6) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 18:06:43 <ubitux>	nitpick: you probably want to capitalize "Libav"
Oct 04 18:07:09 <saste>	ubitux, i think "libav" is the official spelling, I might be wrong
Oct 04 18:07:21 <saste>	that's probably not important anyway ;-)
Oct 04 18:07:34 <saste>	so trying to resume i see this points:
Oct 04 18:07:49 <saste>	1. stop with reciprocal accusations and insults
Oct 04 18:08:18 <saste>	now it is not easy to say what other people consider accusations, but the general agreement was that we should stop that
Oct 04 18:08:37 <saste>	that would be functional to having better relationships between the two projects
Oct 04 18:09:09 <saste>	at some point it should also help with having some discussion about the technical problems (related to API/ABI conflicts)
Oct 04 18:09:28 <saste>	it was also proposed to edit a sort of a shared "code of conduct"
Oct 04 18:10:15 <saste>	this could not be enforced on contributors from both projects, but would represent the official "behavior" that both projects want their contributors to follow, for what concerns mutual relationships
Oct 04 18:10:48 <saste>	2. the idea of a common mailing list discussing API and design issues, was basically not agreed upon
Oct 04 18:11:59 <saste>	indeed one argumentation was that a technical mean (in this case a common ML/channel) cannot be used to overcome a social issue (related to reciprocal accusations between contributors from both projects)
Oct 04 18:12:20 <saste>	3. it was proposed to remove the ban on michael from libav channels
Oct 04 18:12:28 <saste>	not sure there is actual need for that though
Oct 04 18:12:54 <saste>	4. it was proposed to have a shared IRC meeting between the two project, moderated by a third party
Oct 04 18:13:04 <saste>	please comment about the points above
Oct 04 18:13:22 <saste>	in particular i would like to hear about the idea of a shared code of conduct
Oct 04 18:14:03 <saste>	also tell if you want to help with editing such document, assuming we agree about going with it
Oct 04 18:14:44 <wm4>	I'd also suggest stopping reliving the past every time this is discussed
Oct 04 18:15:05 <saste>	wm4, yeah that was a point raised during the discussion
Oct 04 18:15:45 <ubitux>	do we have recent examples of this?
Oct 04 18:15:46 <ubitux>	i can think of the trac...
Oct 04 18:15:48 <saste>	the idea was basically "stop talking about the past"
Oct 04 18:16:46 <saste>	ubitux, examples about insults, or talking about the past
Oct 04 18:17:24 <michaelni>	i think "code of conduct" is a bad term, isnt this called "Netiquette" everywhere ?
Oct 04 18:17:56 <saste>	michaelni, yes, but I think "netiquette" is more generic
Oct 04 18:18:23 <saste>	while this "code of conduct" should focus on a specific area, related to inter-project relationships
Oct 04 18:18:35 <saste>	then i don't mind if we want to change the name
Oct 04 18:19:15 <saste>	about such code of conduct, i don't think it should be adopted to ban people, but just to represent the "official" point of view of the project about potentially harmful behaviors
Oct 04 18:21:42 <saste>	michaelni, would you be fine in principle with having such a document?
Oct 04 18:22:38 <saste>	the long term objective is to improve social relationships between the two projects, improve cooperation and maybe in a distant future to merge them back
Oct 04 18:22:51 <saste>	of course the details about such "document" can be discussed
Oct 04 18:23:37 <llogan>	"code of conduct" seems fine to me. netiquette seems too internet localized
Oct 04 18:23:37 <llogan>	since it should also apply to non-internet meetings
Oct 04 18:24:18 <michaelni>	people insulted each other in non-internet meetings ?
Oct 04 18:24:24 <saste>	llogan, agreed
Oct 04 18:24:44 <saste>	michaelni, the real-life meeting was pretty civil I think
Oct 04 18:25:16 <saste>	michaelni, so yes it is mostly an internet-related thing
Oct 04 18:25:16 <michaelni>	and if so, that document will change that ?
Oct 04 18:25:38 <ubitux>	saste: is your irc client buffering or something?
Oct 04 18:25:49 <llogan>	michaelni: i dont know the answer to any of those questions.
Oct 04 18:25:51 <saste>	ubitux, no idea, why?
Oct 04 18:26:14 <saste>	michaelni, the point about such document is to clarify the official position of the project
Oct 04 18:26:32 <saste>	I don't think we should restrain someone from telling what he thinks
Oct 04 18:26:50 <ubitux>	saste: http://pastie.org/pastes/9620224/text look at the timestamps
Oct 04 18:26:59 <saste>	but it should be clear that that position doesn't necessarily reflect the "official" position of the project
Oct 04 18:27:18 <llogan>	saste: i see the same thing regarding your messages here
Oct 04 18:27:23 <michaelni>	saste, you seem oddly buffering/lagging here too
Oct 04 18:27:25 *	hawken too
Oct 04 18:28:21 <saste>	my bad luck...
Oct 04 18:28:57 *	Compn (notabot@107-147-234-87.res.bhn.net) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 18:28:59 <Compn>	hey
Oct 04 18:29:03 <Compn>	i'm late :(
Oct 04 18:29:32 *	nevcairiel (nev@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/nevcairiel) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 18:30:24 *	arwa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
Oct 04 18:30:28 <llogan>	do we have an official point-of-view about such behaviors?
Oct 04 18:30:31 *	rcombs (~rcombs@rcombs.me) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 18:30:32 *	hawken has quit (Excess Flood)
Oct 04 18:30:45 <saste>	Compn, do you think the "code of conduct" thing discussed during VLDD could be useful?
Oct 04 18:30:45 *	hawken (~hawken@137.37-191-139.fiber.lynet.no) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 18:30:55 <saste>	llogan, no i don't think so
Oct 04 18:30:59 <llogan>	where would this CoC live?
Oct 04 18:31:07 <saste>	every dev talks for himself
Oct 04 18:31:24 <michaelni>	"<saste> michaelni, would you be fine in principle with having such a document?", yes, if people want such a document, but i dont think it would really make a difference, talking with the people involved in the once a year insults likely will work better
Oct 04 18:31:24 <saste>	llogan, i suppose as a text document somewhere
Oct 04 18:32:20 <saste>	michaelni, i'm also fine with an IRC meeting if that would help
Oct 04 18:32:20 <llogan>	was this a proposal from libav? they wanted us to make this?
Oct 04 18:32:35 <llogan>	i'm referring to the codeofconduct
Oct 04 18:32:57 <saste>	llogan, i cannot remember whence the idea came from, but I think it was from libav
Oct 04 18:33:21 <llogan>	will they have one too, or is it going to be shared between projects?
Oct 04 18:34:11 <ubitux>	so what happens in case of misrespect of the "code of conduct"?
Oct 04 18:34:14 <michaelni>	IMO it has to apply to both projects equally
Oct 04 18:34:40 <michaelni>	if it is written ...
Oct 04 18:34:46 *	Daniellynet (~Daniellyn@87-58-92-86-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 18:35:33 *	durandal11707 (~r@141-136-242-115.dsl.iskon.hr) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 18:35:38 <saste>	ubitux, i don't think it should be enforced
Oct 04 18:36:33 <rcombs>	so more "conduct guidelines", I guess?
Oct 04 18:36:40 <ubitux>	so you think writting a common sense document will help?
Oct 04 18:36:40 <llogan>	seems to me it will be a scapegoat to point to if someone does make an insult.
Oct 04 18:36:54 <saste>	suppose that one contributors insults the other project
Oct 04 18:37:13 <saste>	you can say that he's not representing the official position of the project
Oct 04 18:37:48 <ubitux>	we already do that i believe, but sure ok
Oct 04 18:37:53 <saste>	it should provide a sort of "stigma" about some specific behaviors, which are toxic to both projects
Oct 04 18:38:05 *	durandal_1707 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
Oct 04 18:38:56 <llogan>	don't sound like an interesting thing to work on, but i suppose we can try it
Oct 04 18:39:25 <llogan>	if the non-existance of this is a block to progress according to libav.
Oct 04 18:39:27 *	durandal11707 is now known as durandal_1707
Oct 04 18:39:59 <ubitux>	i believe a lot of our users are responsible for the aggressive tone toward libav though
Oct 04 18:40:15 <saste>	ubitux, that also
Oct 04 18:40:18 <ubitux>	now that ffmpeg is available again in debian (soon ubuntu?) i would guess it will become smoother
Oct 04 18:40:30 <wm4>	ubitux: I think that's a problem Libav created
Oct 04 18:40:30 <ubitux>	also, i think libav fixed the avconv message?
Oct 04 18:40:39 <ubitux>	or not yet?
Oct 04 18:40:39 <wm4>	by making ffmpeg output a message that it's deprecated...
Oct 04 18:40:51 <llogan>	ubitux: no. they just dropped their ffmpeg
Oct 04 18:40:57 *	kurosu (kurosu@2a01:e35:8ae7:63a0:bc71:e47e:5b76:19b4) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 18:40:58 <llogan>	there were two messages
Oct 04 18:41:00 <wm4>	they fixed it in libav 8
Oct 04 18:41:04 <llogan>	both confusing to lay-users
Oct 04 18:41:08 <wm4>	which is still maintained and which has ffmpeg.c or so
Oct 04 18:41:15 *	arwa (~arwa@14.139.82.6) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 18:41:23 <llogan>	one was a message upstream, and one was from Ubuntu, IIRC
Oct 04 18:41:24 <ubitux>	llogan: Diego sent a patch for that, with a very long review process, but i thought it was applied at some point
Oct 04 18:41:35 <ubitux>	not long ago
Oct 04 18:41:45 <wm4>	whether or whether not there were ill intentions behind this baldy formulated message, it seemed to make libav unpopular with users
Oct 04 18:41:59 <llogan>	ubitux: oh. i guess that's when i quit giving a shit
Oct 04 18:45:19 <llogan>	ubitux: yes, i think having our ffmpeg available in a few years will calm users
Oct 04 18:45:43 <ubitux>	a few years? it already is available
Oct 04 18:46:15 <llogan>	i was joking, but i thought it was currently in testing?
Oct 04 18:46:26 <ubitux>	it moved to unstable
Oct 04 18:46:47 <ubitux>	the main discussion is about getting into jessie or not
Oct 04 18:47:01 <ubitux>	i don't know how long it will take before it gets back in ubuntu
Oct 04 18:47:28 <llogan>	that's what i was mostly referring to
Oct 04 18:48:33 <ubitux>	anyway, should we move on to the next topic?
Oct 04 18:51:50 <llogan>	OPW
Oct 04 18:52:05 <saste>	ubitux, if there is no more to discuss, we can go forward
Oct 04 18:53:47 <ubitux>	about OPW, i think the wiki is missing a "Information for Mentors"
Oct 04 18:53:49 <Compn>	sorry i is back
Oct 04 18:54:09 <ubitux>	typically, i have no idea what i'm supposed to really do or say for applicants
Oct 04 18:54:12 <Compn>	saste : not really. do we have any disruptions on the mailing list in the last 2 years? i cant think of any
Oct 04 18:54:28 <ubitux>	right now i have 2 students trying to write (different) subtitles demuxer
Oct 04 18:54:29 <Compn>	or irc or bugtrac ?
Oct 04 18:54:51 <ubitux>	i'm not sure how much i'm suppose to help them, or tell them
Oct 04 18:54:58 <ubitux>	i think we have a budget just for one student, right?
Oct 04 18:55:16 <wm4>	also 2 people working on subs at the same time?
Oct 04 18:55:26 <wm4>	isn't it 1 task?
Oct 04 18:55:33 <ubitux>	wm4: both of them asked for that specific thing
Oct 04 18:55:51 <wm4>	so only 1 of them can actually work on it eventually
Oct 04 18:56:01 <wm4>	or can the task be split?
Oct 04 18:56:06 <ubitux>	i just guide them through a self-made qualification task, but i don't really know what to do
Oct 04 18:56:07 <michaelni>	ubitux, yes we have money for 1 slot, its possible we find another sponsor before slot assigment and its possible we get some slot from a sponsor which didnt pin their donation to a project
Oct 04 18:56:09 <wm4>	what is their task at all?
Oct 04 18:56:18 <wm4>	ubitux: I think you're guiding fine
Oct 04 18:56:41 *	Holden (~holden@unaffiliated/holdenc) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 18:57:08 <ubitux>	"The application deadline is October 22, 2014 and internship dates are December 9, 2014 to March 9, 2015."
Oct 04 18:57:12 <Compn>	not sure if you guys saw this, heres the transcript of the meeting we had at vdd
Oct 04 18:57:16 <Compn>	saste : http://paste.ubuntu.com/8488924/
Oct 04 18:57:18 <ubitux>	so at the end of this month, we'll choose one?
Oct 04 18:57:31 <michaelni>	also theres #opw & #opw-admin on GIMPNet if some mentor or applicant has questions that arent sufficiently awnsered by us
Oct 04 18:58:07 <ubitux>	am i supposed to register or something?
Oct 04 18:58:12 <saste>	Compn, thanks
Oct 04 18:58:19 <michaelni>	ubitux, no clue
Oct 04 18:58:34 <ubitux>	lol
Oct 04 18:58:51 <michaelni>	for gsoc mentors & students have to register IIRC
Oct 04 18:58:53 <ubitux>	any other mentor has current student candidates?
Oct 04 18:59:12 <Compn>	does opw pay mentors ? or no
Oct 04 18:59:19 <saste>	michaelni, i remember a proposal from a student, but i probably missed to reply
Oct 04 18:59:21 <Compn>	if yes, then probably you need to register ubitux
Oct 04 18:59:28 <michaelni>	there was one who wanted to do postproc asm
Oct 04 18:59:37 <saste>	if you remember please ping me, although I'm not sure i'll be able to mentor
Oct 04 19:00:39 <llogan>	ubitux: you do need to sign up as a mentor.
Oct 04 19:00:56 <ubitux>	erm, ok
Oct 04 19:01:51 <michaelni>	saste, i only see juliet (ALS encoder) which i think is handled by paul & thilo
Oct 04 19:02:12 <saste>	michaelni, ok, and sorry for not being reactive in this period
Oct 04 19:03:03 <ubitux>	do i have to do it after the qualification tasks?
Oct 04 19:03:03 <llogan>	https://wiki.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen/Admin/GettingStarted
Oct 04 19:03:03 <ubitux>	alright, this should be mentioned in our wiki
Oct 04 19:03:17 <durandal_1707>	there is opw page where ffmpeg stuff is tracked?
Oct 04 19:04:40 <Holden>	Hello everyone, sorry for being late. I have one student candidate (myra) for the symmetric block ciphers project. She is going to submit her qualification task in the following days
Oct 04 19:05:09 <Compn>	durandal_1707 : we had a trac page for it , i thought?
Oct 04 19:05:37 <llogan>	other project OPW pages can be seen here: https://wiki.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen/2014/DecemberMarch
Oct 04 19:05:37 <llogan>	https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/SponsoringPrograms/OPW/2014-12
Oct 04 19:06:00 <ubitux>	i think we should make sure our students are aware that there are quite a bunch of applicants
Oct 04 19:06:30 <ubitux>	and that despite how good they are and what they do, we'll pick only of them (maybe more if a miracle happens)
Oct 04 19:07:13 <michaelni>	i think its likely that if we end with 5 highly qualified applicants that we would get more slots
Oct 04 19:07:35 <michaelni>	also we dont have a single qualification task finished and submitted yet
Oct 04 19:07:45 <michaelni>	not even a first iteration for a patch for one
Oct 04 19:08:08 <michaelni>	so maybe dont yet drive applicants away ;)
Oct 04 19:08:41 <michaelni>	but yes we should publish the information we have about the slots
Oct 04 19:08:43 <llogan>	we could make a list of current applicants on the wiki page (and serve as a reminder for us)
Oct 04 19:08:43 <ubitux>	i think each section has a field for that
Oct 04 19:08:43 *	kriegerod (~krieger@vpk-vityaz.od.ua) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 19:08:44 <ubitux>	i should ask the subtitles candidates to add themselves
Oct 04 19:09:10 <ubitux>	ok
Oct 04 19:09:10 <michaelni>	yes all candidates should add themselfs
Oct 04 19:11:18 <Compn>	is there anything we can help with opw ? (my lazyness already regrets asking this)
Oct 04 19:12:27 <ubitux>	what i mentioned above for the wiki
Oct 04 19:12:31 <michaelni>	Compn, hmm theres always work to do, someone should document on our wiki what/if registering is needed for applicants & mentors
Oct 04 19:13:13 <michaelni>	also, opw is not just limited to coding if someone still wants to mentor & add other tasks to the wiki
Oct 04 19:14:16 <Compn>	ok good to know
Oct 04 19:14:55 <Compn>	although we just got a website overhaul. maybe something could be done to ensure our docs are correct and all examples still work
Oct 04 19:15:11 <Compn>	although i think those were all added recently, so should be ok
Oct 04 19:15:18 <llogan>	Compn: take a look at the other participating orgs OPW pages for some ideas, perhaps. i'd do it but i leave tomorrow for a week.
Oct 04 19:15:25 <Compn>	good idea
Oct 04 19:19:10 <ubitux>	by the way, i don't know who fixed the pictures in the opw page, but thank you
Oct 04 19:19:40 <ubitux>	are we done with the opw thing or there is more?
Oct 04 19:20:12 <saste>	who's going to decide what candidates to accept?
Oct 04 19:20:32 <michaelni>	mentors i guess
Oct 04 19:20:34 <saste>	or in other words, what about the selection process?
Oct 04 19:20:36 <Compn>	mentors could do it as a group, or seperate ?
Oct 04 19:20:57 <saste>	michaelni, in case we have more than one valid candidate?
Oct 04 19:20:58 <llogan>	doesn't sound like any of us read the OPW docs. maybe it provides guidelines?
Oct 04 19:21:13 <Compn>	llogan : no one rtfm ;P
Oct 04 19:21:45 <saste>	ok, so we have to clarify this point
Oct 04 19:21:56 <saste>	probably this is not the right place where to do it anyway...
Oct 04 19:22:15 <michaelni>	id say mentors should discuss and find consensus of who to accept (is most likely successfull & will most likely continue contributing in the future)
Oct 04 19:22:15 <llogan>	lets move on to next topic
Oct 04 19:22:23 <saste>	next topic
Oct 04 19:22:40 <saste>	3. technical development issues 
Oct 04 19:22:46 <ubitux>	subtitles :(
Oct 04 19:23:34 <saste>	ubitux, i thought you was tired of subtitles, but then you surprised me again! :-D
Oct 04 19:23:49 <ubitux>	yeah i don't know either
Oct 04 19:24:03 <ubitux>	i felt motivated for some unknown reason so...
Oct 04 19:24:08 <ubitux>	that might not last long but well
Oct 04 19:25:14 <wm4>	hopefully you make it up to the point where ffmpeg can hardcode muxed subs
Oct 04 19:25:22 <wm4>	it's embarrassing that ffmpeg can't do that
Oct 04 19:28:25 <ubitux>	it can, but it's a pain
Oct 04 19:28:25 <ubitux>	i think another very embarrassing thing is the dvd support
Oct 04 19:28:25 <ubitux>	and maybe the exact seeking, which was requested several times
Oct 04 19:28:25 <ubitux>	i mean... even mencoder is better at it
Oct 04 19:28:25 <ubitux>	and somehow related, we also have needs for a better layering between protocols and formats
Oct 04 19:28:25 <ubitux>	i can think of icecast or bluray, and maybe dvds
Oct 04 19:28:25 <ubitux>	as usual, we seem to lack manpower though
Oct 04 19:28:57 <saste>	ubitux, yes
Oct 04 19:30:10 <ubitux>	i mean even mencoder is better at dvd supports, that's a shame :P
Oct 04 19:30:42 <saste>	anybody tracking the libdvdread repo from videolan?
Oct 04 19:30:59 <saste>	my old patches were a bit of a mess
Oct 04 19:31:20 <saste>	libblurary is much easier to use in comparation
Oct 04 19:31:45 <ubitux>	you should probably discuss this with j-b
Oct 04 19:32:03 <ubitux>	another solution is to NIH it, but we'll probably get a bunch of hysterical nerds taunting us if we do that :)
Oct 04 19:32:24 <saste>	why NIH, we can just use the videolan repo
Oct 04 19:32:37 <ubitux>	builtin, etc.
Oct 04 19:32:39 <saste>	it's not like we don't have nothing better to do
Oct 04 19:32:41 <Compn>	dvd support is requested feature. one of the reasons people still use mencoder
Oct 04 19:32:58 <Compn>	j-b would probably pay you to write new dvd lib
Oct 04 19:33:05 <Compn>	but it would also probably take a year to do...
Oct 04 19:33:10 <saste>	Compn, do we have a ticket for that?
Oct 04 19:33:15 <Compn>	(he hates libdvdread)
Oct 04 19:33:19 <Compn>	iirc 
Oct 04 19:33:33 <Compn>	saste : for dvd:// in ffmpeg ? .i dont remember
Oct 04 19:33:40 <ubitux>	saste: the dvd libs seems to have a very heavy historical burden, and a bunch of things might overlap with what we have in ffmpeg
Oct 04 19:33:53 <ubitux>	so that's why i suggested this, but yeah, probably not a good idea
Oct 04 19:34:12 <Compn>	ubitux : if serious about nih, ask j-b , he may join in
Oct 04 19:34:34 <ubitux>	i really don't have the time for that
Oct 04 19:35:17 <ubitux>	btw, it would be nice of the dvd demuxer could output the subtitles :P
Oct 04 19:39:11 <ubitux>	ah and, i'm midly interested in knowing what other developers work on
Oct 04 19:39:45 <ubitux>	while i'm not asking for people to brag about it on irc like i do, developers assigning themselves to tickets might help
Oct 04 19:39:49 <hawken>	Guys, I wanted to do MVC, and I found Britz's code but if someone with some more knowledge would team up with me it would be really awesome
Oct 04 19:40:05 <ubitux>	so more people can have an overview on where the project is going
Oct 04 19:40:25 <saste>	ubitux, sorry to disappoint you, at the moment i'm doing almost nothing really relevant
Oct 04 19:40:32 <ubitux>	:(
Oct 04 19:40:44 <saste>	(working on a day-job mostly unrelated project)
Oct 04 19:41:06 <saste>	my todo list is long, but still
Oct 04 19:41:50 <saste>	i think we should find some way of internal mentoring to help people working on a given task, in case he needs help
Oct 04 19:42:10 <Compn>	hawken : ask on the list probably...
Oct 04 19:42:16 <saste>	also sponsoring important issues, but that's not easy to fix 
Oct 04 19:42:18 <Compn>	hawken : or troll some x264 guys to join you?
Oct 04 19:42:21 <ubitux>	do we have a ticket for mvc?
Oct 04 19:42:22 <hawken>	:P
Oct 04 19:42:27 <hawken>	#3002 afaik
Oct 04 19:42:41 <saste>	Compn, can you create a ticket for dvd reading support?
Oct 04 19:42:46 <Compn>	saste : sire
Oct 04 19:42:46 <ubitux>	hawken: looks unrelated
Oct 04 19:42:48 <Compn>	sure*
Oct 04 19:42:49 <hawken>	Ah..
Oct 04 19:42:52 <hawken>	Was something in that range
Oct 04 19:42:54 <hawken>	maybe 3004
Oct 04 19:43:00 <ubitux>	saste, Compn are you sure we haven't one already?
Oct 04 19:43:09 <hawken>	Damn.. not that one either
Oct 04 19:43:11 <hawken>	I'll find it
Oct 04 19:43:19 <hawken>	#3009
Oct 04 19:43:30 <ubitux>	Compn: saste: https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/3280
Oct 04 19:43:59 <ubitux>	hawken: please participate in that ticket then
Oct 04 19:44:16 <ubitux>	hawken: use it to centralize your knowledge/references of it
Oct 04 19:44:31 <ubitux>	and then send a mail to ffmpeg-devel asking for more
Oct 04 19:44:55 <ubitux>	Compn: good job, now please close it as duplicate
Oct 04 19:44:56 <ubitux>	:p
Oct 04 19:44:58 <Compn>	ubitux : closed.
Oct 04 19:45:00 <Compn>	:P
Oct 04 19:45:04 *	Compn afk
Oct 04 19:46:07 <saste>	anything else, or should we proceed to the next point?
Oct 04 19:47:08 <saste>	4. misc topics 
Oct 04 19:47:14 <wm4>	<hawken> Guys, I wanted to do MVC, and I found Britz's code but if someone with some more knowledge would team up with me it would be really awesome <- didn't someone on Libav (koda) also do MVC?
Oct 04 19:47:46 <ubitux>	i believe i pointed him to koda already yeah
Oct 04 19:49:18 <ubitux>	on a misc. topic, i'd like to mention that some libass developers (hello rcombs) are kind of working on a new standardization of the ASS subtitles format/markup
Oct 04 19:49:47 <rcombs>	'ehlo
Oct 04 19:50:22 <kierank>	wm4: koda just did some libav cleaning
Oct 04 19:50:27 <kierank>	didn't actually work on mvc
Oct 04 19:50:33 <michaelni>	hawken, also maybe ask/contact Peter Wimmer and Gerion Entrup, i do see mails from them about MVC on the ML
Oct 04 19:50:50 <ubitux>	this concerns FFmpeg because we might probably use it as our internal representation of decoded subtitles when the time comes
Oct 04 19:50:50 <ubitux>	of course, currently the goal is to switch to a proper sane ASSv4 instead of the hack we currently have
Oct 04 19:59:13 <saste>	uh i think we shall move to the next topics
Oct 04 19:59:26 <saste>	assuming people is not already sleeping :-)
Oct 04 19:59:30 <hawken>	wm4: Couldn't find anything on google with koda, MVC and libav as keywords :P
Oct 04 20:00:01 <saste>	who knows the name of koda?
Oct 04 20:00:20 <saste>	hawken, that's also because #libav-devel logs are not archived
Oct 04 20:00:23 <saste>	IIRC
Oct 04 20:00:54 *	durandal_1707 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
Oct 04 20:01:13 <hawken>	AH, well it says here https://mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel-irc/2014-February/001905.html "<nevcairiel> its something a student wrote for a thesis without a care in the world for style or whatnot koda from libav has been trying to untangle the decoder for a while as well"
Oct 04 20:01:24 <hawken>	So that's basically the same code that I cleaned up
Oct 04 20:01:25 <ubitux>	saste: koda is Vittorio Giovara <vittorio.giovara@gmail.com>
Oct 04 20:02:01 <hawken>	But I didn't get so far as to apply it to current codebase, but I made a patch that looked nice for the version he started working on
Oct 04 20:02:04 <hawken>	if anyone are interested
Oct 04 20:02:08 <saste>	ubitux, thanks
Oct 04 20:03:32 <llogan>	hawken: you could always post stuff to ffmpeg-devel as [RFC] request for comment if you need help, etc.
Oct 04 20:04:03 <llogan>	"stuff" being patches that you intend to eventually send to ffmpeg-devel
Oct 04 20:04:09 <saste>	hawken, yes post a patch as an RFC if it's still not ready, and ping it until you get some attention
Oct 04 20:04:17 <saste>	hopefully someone will be able to help
Oct 04 20:04:30 <hawken>	It segfaulted though ^_^
Oct 04 20:04:33 <hawken>	mhm
Oct 04 20:04:40 <hawken>	sorry to take up your time, please proceed :P
Oct 04 20:05:07 <saste>	next topic is: misc topics
Oct 04 20:05:15 <saste>	whatever was not covered in the previous ones
Oct 04 20:05:31 <ubitux>	what i said about libass development
Oct 04 20:05:58 <ubitux>	some people might be interested, and might want to request stuff for the next standard
Oct 04 20:06:18 <ubitux>	typically, i asked for ruby character/furigana support, because webvtt has such support
Oct 04 20:06:29 <ubitux>	and we need it for the decoded form of the webvtt subtitles
Oct 04 20:06:48 <ubitux>	anyway, just a random misc topic
Oct 04 20:07:30 <michaelni>	about misc, someone should update fateserver to allow displaying only a specific release or master
Oct 04 20:08:14 <michaelni>	daemon404 wanted to look into it but then became very busy ...
Oct 04 20:08:22 <llogan>	maybe timothy would be interested.
Oct 04 20:08:54 <michaelni>	he wasnt when i asked week(s) ago but maybe that changed 
Oct 04 20:09:25 <wm4>	apropos debian: "Still, due to https://bugs.debian.org/763148 (it's not really a bug, but the Debian security team doesn't want to have to deal with both libav and ffmpeg in the stable release, and at this point it's too late to switch to ffmpeg) the ffmpeg packages aren't going to be in the next Debian release"
Oct 04 20:11:49 <_aca__>	wm4: unless we convince them
Oct 04 20:12:15 <saste>	about IRC meetings, should we have a plan and have regular meetings, or just discuss them when there seem to be a need?
Oct 04 20:12:50 <ubitux>	saste: no opinion, maybe post releases could be nice
Oct 04 20:13:04 <saste>	the past one was in January
Oct 04 20:13:20 <llogan>	i don't have a strong option, but i would like them to move along at a slightly faster pace
Oct 04 20:13:51 <ubitux>	ah and i have another suggestion
Oct 04 20:13:51 <saste>	and RL meetings seem not very realistic at this point (but there are several FLOSS events when we could meet)
Oct 04 20:14:03 <ubitux>	the archlinux distribution is doing some kind of "bug day"
Oct 04 20:15:58 <saste>	ubitux, how does it work?
Oct 04 20:16:12 <saste>	we proposed such things in the past but they never worked
Oct 04 20:16:17 <ubitux>	where basically the project focus on fixing bug for one day or two
Oct 04 20:16:40 <saste>	like the proposal to sponsor popular/old issue fixing 
Oct 04 20:16:48 <saste>	ubitux, why not anyway
Oct 04 20:17:01 <ubitux>	users come to give a hand or complain
Oct 04 20:17:01 <ubitux>	(they open a room for such thing)
Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>	i don't know if they continue to do that though
Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>	but it was a thing at some point
Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>	i thought it wasn't a bad idea, and it might be a good opportunity to talk with our users
Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>	not sure how relevant this is, just an idea.
Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>	they do a news on the website
Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>	saying "hey next saturday we do a bug day, come join us on #archlinux-bugs"
Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>	yeah i see
Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>	https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Bug_Day seems it didn't last long actually
Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>	oh well.
Oct 04 20:17:56 <saste>	well we can try
Oct 04 20:18:08 <michaelni>	agree
Oct 04 20:18:22 <llogan>	yes. pick a date, make a wiki page.
Oct 04 20:18:29 <michaelni>	also about regular meetings i think its a good idea
Oct 04 20:18:35 <Loriker>	yes
Oct 04 20:18:50 <saste>	michaelni, every six or three months?
Oct 04 20:18:59 <michaelni>	saste, yes ;)
Oct 04 20:19:28 <saste>	at the current rate we have ~2 meetings per year
Oct 04 20:19:44 <saste>	if you have too many, people start to get bored
Oct 04 20:20:10 <saste>	in case of ffmpeg having regular meetings is important since many contributors don't track irc regularly
Oct 04 20:20:44 <saste>	should we call the end of the meeting?
Oct 04 20:20:46 <michaelni>	i have no oppinon of how often as i dont really have a feeling what is better ...
Oct 04 20:21:15 <llogan>	saste: thanks for herding us
Oct 04 20:22:02 <saste>	anything else?
Oct 04 20:22:12 *	ubitux has nothing to add
Oct 04 20:22:50 <saste>	ok, we should publish the log, probably on the wiki and send an email on ffmpeg-devel
Oct 04 20:22:59 <michaelni>	ok
Oct 04 20:23:06 <saste>	http://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/FFmeeting
Oct 04 20:23:31 *	llogan (~llogan@pdpc/supporter/student/pasteeater) has left #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 20:23:55 <saste>	I can do it this night, feel free to beat me at it
Oct 04 20:24:21 *	hawken (~hawken@137.37-191-139.fiber.lynet.no) has left #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 20:24:33 *	ubitux (~ux@pkh.me) has left #ffmpeg-meeting
Oct 04 20:24:42 <saste>	thanks all for joining the meeting!
Oct 04 20:25:11 <saste>	have a nice day/evening/night!
Oct 04 20:26:06 <Loriker>	thx for organizing the meeting - cu and have a good time
Oct 04 20:28:37 <michaelni>	thanks to all and bye
Oct 04 20:28:41 *	michaelni (~michael@chello084114129144.4.15.vie.surfer.at) has left #ffmpeg-meeting ("Leaving")
Oct 04 20:29:28 *	Loriker (~Lorik@HSI-KBW-046-005-036-125.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has left #ffmpeg-meeting
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct  4 20:30:06 2014
Last modified 3 years ago Last modified on Oct 6, 2014, 4:43:52 PM