Changes between Version 1 and Version 2 of FFmeeting/2014-10

Oct 6, 2014, 4:43:52 PM (3 years ago)

add full meeting log


  • FFmeeting/2014-10

    v1 v2  
    77- technical development issues 
    88- misc topics 
     10== Ful meeting log == 
     13**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct  4 17:34:05 2014 
     15Oct 04 17:34:05 *       Now talking on #ffmpeg-meeting 
     16Oct 04 17:34:13 <saste> hi 
     17Oct 04 17:34:19 *       #ffmpeg-meeting :No topic is set. 
     18Oct 04 17:35:29 <Loriker>       hi 
     19Oct 04 17:35:39 *       saste has changed the topic to: The FFmpeg IRC meeting will start on this channel at 16 UTC, 4th October 2014. Topics of the day: 
     20Oct 04 17:36:48 <Loriker>       ah, okay, you are stefano 
     21Oct 04 17:36:54 *       Loriker gives channel operator status to saste 
     22Oct 04 17:37:47 <saste> Loriker, hi 
     23Oct 04 17:40:40 <Loriker>       i am Thomas, "Loriker" is just the name for irc :) 
     24Oct 04 17:41:01 *       cehoyos ( has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     25Oct 04 17:41:11 <saste> hi carl 
     26Oct 04 17:41:20 <Loriker>       hi 
     27Oct 04 17:41:31 *       ubitux ( has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     28Oct 04 17:41:45 *       hawken ( has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     29Oct 04 17:41:59 <hawken>        Hi, I'll just log it so I can read it later :) 
     30Oct 04 17:42:06 *       kierank (sid5955@gateway/web/ has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     31Oct 04 17:42:20 *       saste has changed the topic to: The FFmpeg IRC meeting will start on this channel at 16 UTC, 4th October 2014. Topics of the day: | The channel is public and the log will be published on ffmpeg-devel 
     32Oct 04 17:42:24 <ubitux>        i'm not exactly sure why we don't discuss this on #ffmpeg-devel but well... :) 
     33Oct 04 17:42:38 <saste> ubitux, it is custom to meet on a different channel 
     34Oct 04 17:42:58 <saste> so that you don't have to disentangle unrelated discussion happening on ffmpeg-devel at the same time 
     35Oct 04 17:46:15 <ubitux>        ok ok 
     36Oct 04 17:47:22 <kierank>       who is Loriker  
     37Oct 04 17:48:01 *       michaelni ( has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     38Oct 04 17:48:37 <ubitux>        kierank: i'd say Thomas Volkert  
     39Oct 04 17:49:16 <ubitux>        RTP stuff 
     40Oct 04 17:53:03 <Loriker>       yes, that's me 
     41Oct 04 17:53:52 *       arwa (~arwa@ has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     42Oct 04 17:54:58 <saste> I'm going to post my short report about the discussion we had in Dublin with libav, since one of the topics 
     43Oct 04 17:55:00 <saste> 
     44Oct 04 17:55:12 *       c_14 (~c_14@unaffiliated/c-14/x-8913907) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     45Oct 04 17:55:21 *       wm4 ( has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     46Oct 04 17:55:33 <saste> I'm not going to post this on ffmpeg-devel because it wasn't yet reviewed by other persons attending the meeting 
     47Oct 04 17:55:58 <kierank>       saste: i didn't attend the meeting 
     48Oct 04 17:56:08 <saste> (I asked compn and Attila to review it, compn did it in real time when we still were in dublin) 
     49Oct 04 17:56:12 *       durandal_1707 ( has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     50Oct 04 17:56:21 <saste> kierank, ok, going to edit the report 
     51Oct 04 17:56:26 <saste> indeed i wasn't sure about you 
     52Oct 04 17:56:31 *       llogan (~llogan@pdpc/supporter/student/pasteeater) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     53Oct 04 17:58:02 <saste> updated: 
     54Oct 04 17:58:05 *       _aca__ ( has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     55Oct 04 17:58:51 *       arwa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 
     56Oct 04 18:00:09 <saste> we're going to start in a few minutes 
     57Oct 04 18:01:49 <saste> let's start 
     58Oct 04 18:02:01 <ubitux>        (note: you probably want to use gits or stuff like that for iterations) 
     59Oct 04 18:02:16 <saste> topics of the day: 
     60Oct 04 18:02:32 <saste> 1. VDD 2014 report and discussion, in particular with regards to relationships with libav 
     61Oct 04 18:02:38 <ubitux>        (gist*) 
     62Oct 04 18:02:46 <saste> 2. OPW program organization  
     63Oct 04 18:02:55 <saste> 3. technical development issues 
     64Oct 04 18:03:04 <saste> 4. misc topics 
     65Oct 04 18:03:17 <saste> let's start with 1. VDD 2014 report and discussion, in particular with regards to relationships with libav 
     66Oct 04 18:03:48 <saste> please read this short report if you didn't already do it: 
     67Oct 04 18:04:04 <saste> note that this is not to be considered yet ufficial, since it lacks reviews from the libav side 
     68Oct 04 18:04:36 <saste> i'll leave you a couple minutes to read it, then i can try to summarize some points 
     69Oct 04 18:05:32 *       arwa (~arwa@ has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     70Oct 04 18:06:43 <ubitux>        nitpick: you probably want to capitalize "Libav" 
     71Oct 04 18:07:09 <saste> ubitux, i think "libav" is the official spelling, I might be wrong 
     72Oct 04 18:07:21 <saste> that's probably not important anyway ;-) 
     73Oct 04 18:07:34 <saste> so trying to resume i see this points: 
     74Oct 04 18:07:49 <saste> 1. stop with reciprocal accusations and insults 
     75Oct 04 18:08:18 <saste> now it is not easy to say what other people consider accusations, but the general agreement was that we should stop that 
     76Oct 04 18:08:37 <saste> that would be functional to having better relationships between the two projects 
     77Oct 04 18:09:09 <saste> at some point it should also help with having some discussion about the technical problems (related to API/ABI conflicts) 
     78Oct 04 18:09:28 <saste> it was also proposed to edit a sort of a shared "code of conduct" 
     79Oct 04 18:10:15 <saste> this could not be enforced on contributors from both projects, but would represent the official "behavior" that both projects want their contributors to follow, for what concerns mutual relationships 
     80Oct 04 18:10:48 <saste> 2. the idea of a common mailing list discussing API and design issues, was basically not agreed upon 
     81Oct 04 18:11:59 <saste> indeed one argumentation was that a technical mean (in this case a common ML/channel) cannot be used to overcome a social issue (related to reciprocal accusations between contributors from both projects) 
     82Oct 04 18:12:20 <saste> 3. it was proposed to remove the ban on michael from libav channels 
     83Oct 04 18:12:28 <saste> not sure there is actual need for that though 
     84Oct 04 18:12:54 <saste> 4. it was proposed to have a shared IRC meeting between the two project, moderated by a third party 
     85Oct 04 18:13:04 <saste> please comment about the points above 
     86Oct 04 18:13:22 <saste> in particular i would like to hear about the idea of a shared code of conduct 
     87Oct 04 18:14:03 <saste> also tell if you want to help with editing such document, assuming we agree about going with it 
     88Oct 04 18:14:44 <wm4>   I'd also suggest stopping reliving the past every time this is discussed 
     89Oct 04 18:15:05 <saste> wm4, yeah that was a point raised during the discussion 
     90Oct 04 18:15:45 <ubitux>        do we have recent examples of this? 
     91Oct 04 18:15:46 <ubitux>        i can think of the trac... 
     92Oct 04 18:15:48 <saste> the idea was basically "stop talking about the past" 
     93Oct 04 18:16:46 <saste> ubitux, examples about insults, or talking about the past 
     94Oct 04 18:17:24 <michaelni>     i think "code of conduct" is a bad term, isnt this called "Netiquette" everywhere ? 
     95Oct 04 18:17:56 <saste> michaelni, yes, but I think "netiquette" is more generic 
     96Oct 04 18:18:23 <saste> while this "code of conduct" should focus on a specific area, related to inter-project relationships 
     97Oct 04 18:18:35 <saste> then i don't mind if we want to change the name 
     98Oct 04 18:19:15 <saste> about such code of conduct, i don't think it should be adopted to ban people, but just to represent the "official" point of view of the project about potentially harmful behaviors 
     99Oct 04 18:21:42 <saste> michaelni, would you be fine in principle with having such a document? 
     100Oct 04 18:22:38 <saste> the long term objective is to improve social relationships between the two projects, improve cooperation and maybe in a distant future to merge them back 
     101Oct 04 18:22:51 <saste> of course the details about such "document" can be discussed 
     102Oct 04 18:23:37 <llogan>        "code of conduct" seems fine to me. netiquette seems too internet localized 
     103Oct 04 18:23:37 <llogan>        since it should also apply to non-internet meetings 
     104Oct 04 18:24:18 <michaelni>     people insulted each other in non-internet meetings ? 
     105Oct 04 18:24:24 <saste> llogan, agreed 
     106Oct 04 18:24:44 <saste> michaelni, the real-life meeting was pretty civil I think 
     107Oct 04 18:25:16 <saste> michaelni, so yes it is mostly an internet-related thing 
     108Oct 04 18:25:16 <michaelni>     and if so, that document will change that ? 
     109Oct 04 18:25:38 <ubitux>        saste: is your irc client buffering or something? 
     110Oct 04 18:25:49 <llogan>        michaelni: i dont know the answer to any of those questions. 
     111Oct 04 18:25:51 <saste> ubitux, no idea, why? 
     112Oct 04 18:26:14 <saste> michaelni, the point about such document is to clarify the official position of the project 
     113Oct 04 18:26:32 <saste> I don't think we should restrain someone from telling what he thinks 
     114Oct 04 18:26:50 <ubitux>        saste: look at the timestamps 
     115Oct 04 18:26:59 <saste> but it should be clear that that position doesn't necessarily reflect the "official" position of the project 
     116Oct 04 18:27:18 <llogan>        saste: i see the same thing regarding your messages here 
     117Oct 04 18:27:23 <michaelni>     saste, you seem oddly buffering/lagging here too 
     118Oct 04 18:27:25 *       hawken too 
     119Oct 04 18:28:21 <saste> my bad luck... 
     120Oct 04 18:28:57 *       Compn ( has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     121Oct 04 18:28:59 <Compn> hey 
     122Oct 04 18:29:03 <Compn> i'm late :( 
     123Oct 04 18:29:32 *       nevcairiel (nev@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/nevcairiel) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     124Oct 04 18:30:24 *       arwa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 
     125Oct 04 18:30:28 <llogan>        do we have an official point-of-view about such behaviors? 
     126Oct 04 18:30:31 *       rcombs ( has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     127Oct 04 18:30:32 *       hawken has quit (Excess Flood) 
     128Oct 04 18:30:45 <saste> Compn, do you think the "code of conduct" thing discussed during VLDD could be useful? 
     129Oct 04 18:30:45 *       hawken ( has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     130Oct 04 18:30:55 <saste> llogan, no i don't think so 
     131Oct 04 18:30:59 <llogan>        where would this CoC live? 
     132Oct 04 18:31:07 <saste> every dev talks for himself 
     133Oct 04 18:31:24 <michaelni>     "<saste> michaelni, would you be fine in principle with having such a document?", yes, if people want such a document, but i dont think it would really make a difference, talking with the people involved in the once a year insults likely will work better 
     134Oct 04 18:31:24 <saste> llogan, i suppose as a text document somewhere 
     135Oct 04 18:32:20 <saste> michaelni, i'm also fine with an IRC meeting if that would help 
     136Oct 04 18:32:20 <llogan>        was this a proposal from libav? they wanted us to make this? 
     137Oct 04 18:32:35 <llogan>        i'm referring to the codeofconduct 
     138Oct 04 18:32:57 <saste> llogan, i cannot remember whence the idea came from, but I think it was from libav 
     139Oct 04 18:33:21 <llogan>        will they have one too, or is it going to be shared between projects? 
     140Oct 04 18:34:11 <ubitux>        so what happens in case of misrespect of the "code of conduct"? 
     141Oct 04 18:34:14 <michaelni>     IMO it has to apply to both projects equally 
     142Oct 04 18:34:40 <michaelni>     if it is written ... 
     143Oct 04 18:34:46 *       Daniellynet ( has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     144Oct 04 18:35:33 *       durandal11707 ( has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     145Oct 04 18:35:38 <saste> ubitux, i don't think it should be enforced 
     146Oct 04 18:36:33 <rcombs>        so more "conduct guidelines", I guess? 
     147Oct 04 18:36:40 <ubitux>        so you think writting a common sense document will help? 
     148Oct 04 18:36:40 <llogan>        seems to me it will be a scapegoat to point to if someone does make an insult. 
     149Oct 04 18:36:54 <saste> suppose that one contributors insults the other project 
     150Oct 04 18:37:13 <saste> you can say that he's not representing the official position of the project 
     151Oct 04 18:37:48 <ubitux>        we already do that i believe, but sure ok 
     152Oct 04 18:37:53 <saste> it should provide a sort of "stigma" about some specific behaviors, which are toxic to both projects 
     153Oct 04 18:38:05 *       durandal_1707 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 
     154Oct 04 18:38:56 <llogan>        don't sound like an interesting thing to work on, but i suppose we can try it 
     155Oct 04 18:39:25 <llogan>        if the non-existance of this is a block to progress according to libav. 
     156Oct 04 18:39:27 *       durandal11707 is now known as durandal_1707 
     157Oct 04 18:39:59 <ubitux>        i believe a lot of our users are responsible for the aggressive tone toward libav though 
     158Oct 04 18:40:15 <saste> ubitux, that also 
     159Oct 04 18:40:18 <ubitux>        now that ffmpeg is available again in debian (soon ubuntu?) i would guess it will become smoother 
     160Oct 04 18:40:30 <wm4>   ubitux: I think that's a problem Libav created 
     161Oct 04 18:40:30 <ubitux>        also, i think libav fixed the avconv message? 
     162Oct 04 18:40:39 <ubitux>        or not yet? 
     163Oct 04 18:40:39 <wm4>   by making ffmpeg output a message that it's deprecated... 
     164Oct 04 18:40:51 <llogan>        ubitux: no. they just dropped their ffmpeg 
     165Oct 04 18:40:57 *       kurosu (kurosu@2a01:e35:8ae7:63a0:bc71:e47e:5b76:19b4) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     166Oct 04 18:40:58 <llogan>        there were two messages 
     167Oct 04 18:41:00 <wm4>   they fixed it in libav 8 
     168Oct 04 18:41:04 <llogan>        both confusing to lay-users 
     169Oct 04 18:41:08 <wm4>   which is still maintained and which has ffmpeg.c or so 
     170Oct 04 18:41:15 *       arwa (~arwa@ has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     171Oct 04 18:41:23 <llogan>        one was a message upstream, and one was from Ubuntu, IIRC 
     172Oct 04 18:41:24 <ubitux>        llogan: Diego sent a patch for that, with a very long review process, but i thought it was applied at some point 
     173Oct 04 18:41:35 <ubitux>        not long ago 
     174Oct 04 18:41:45 <wm4>   whether or whether not there were ill intentions behind this baldy formulated message, it seemed to make libav unpopular with users 
     175Oct 04 18:41:59 <llogan>        ubitux: oh. i guess that's when i quit giving a shit 
     176Oct 04 18:45:19 <llogan>        ubitux: yes, i think having our ffmpeg available in a few years will calm users 
     177Oct 04 18:45:43 <ubitux>        a few years? it already is available 
     178Oct 04 18:46:15 <llogan>        i was joking, but i thought it was currently in testing? 
     179Oct 04 18:46:26 <ubitux>        it moved to unstable 
     180Oct 04 18:46:47 <ubitux>        the main discussion is about getting into jessie or not 
     181Oct 04 18:47:01 <ubitux>        i don't know how long it will take before it gets back in ubuntu 
     182Oct 04 18:47:28 <llogan>        that's what i was mostly referring to 
     183Oct 04 18:48:33 <ubitux>        anyway, should we move on to the next topic? 
     184Oct 04 18:51:50 <llogan>        OPW 
     185Oct 04 18:52:05 <saste> ubitux, if there is no more to discuss, we can go forward 
     186Oct 04 18:53:47 <ubitux>        about OPW, i think the wiki is missing a "Information for Mentors" 
     187Oct 04 18:53:49 <Compn> sorry i is back 
     188Oct 04 18:54:09 <ubitux>        typically, i have no idea what i'm supposed to really do or say for applicants 
     189Oct 04 18:54:12 <Compn> saste : not really. do we have any disruptions on the mailing list in the last 2 years? i cant think of any 
     190Oct 04 18:54:28 <ubitux>        right now i have 2 students trying to write (different) subtitles demuxer 
     191Oct 04 18:54:29 <Compn> or irc or bugtrac ? 
     192Oct 04 18:54:51 <ubitux>        i'm not sure how much i'm suppose to help them, or tell them 
     193Oct 04 18:54:58 <ubitux>        i think we have a budget just for one student, right? 
     194Oct 04 18:55:16 <wm4>   also 2 people working on subs at the same time? 
     195Oct 04 18:55:26 <wm4>   isn't it 1 task? 
     196Oct 04 18:55:33 <ubitux>        wm4: both of them asked for that specific thing 
     197Oct 04 18:55:51 <wm4>   so only 1 of them can actually work on it eventually 
     198Oct 04 18:56:01 <wm4>   or can the task be split? 
     199Oct 04 18:56:06 <ubitux>        i just guide them through a self-made qualification task, but i don't really know what to do 
     200Oct 04 18:56:07 <michaelni>     ubitux, yes we have money for 1 slot, its possible we find another sponsor before slot assigment and its possible we get some slot from a sponsor which didnt pin their donation to a project 
     201Oct 04 18:56:09 <wm4>   what is their task at all? 
     202Oct 04 18:56:18 <wm4>   ubitux: I think you're guiding fine 
     203Oct 04 18:56:41 *       Holden (~holden@unaffiliated/holdenc) has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     204Oct 04 18:57:08 <ubitux>        "The application deadline is October 22, 2014 and internship dates are December 9, 2014 to March 9, 2015." 
     205Oct 04 18:57:12 <Compn> not sure if you guys saw this, heres the transcript of the meeting we had at vdd 
     206Oct 04 18:57:16 <Compn> saste : 
     207Oct 04 18:57:18 <ubitux>        so at the end of this month, we'll choose one? 
     208Oct 04 18:57:31 <michaelni>     also theres #opw & #opw-admin on GIMPNet if some mentor or applicant has questions that arent sufficiently awnsered by us 
     209Oct 04 18:58:07 <ubitux>        am i supposed to register or something? 
     210Oct 04 18:58:12 <saste> Compn, thanks 
     211Oct 04 18:58:19 <michaelni>     ubitux, no clue 
     212Oct 04 18:58:34 <ubitux>        lol 
     213Oct 04 18:58:51 <michaelni>     for gsoc mentors & students have to register IIRC 
     214Oct 04 18:58:53 <ubitux>        any other mentor has current student candidates? 
     215Oct 04 18:59:12 <Compn> does opw pay mentors ? or no 
     216Oct 04 18:59:19 <saste> michaelni, i remember a proposal from a student, but i probably missed to reply 
     217Oct 04 18:59:21 <Compn> if yes, then probably you need to register ubitux 
     218Oct 04 18:59:28 <michaelni>     there was one who wanted to do postproc asm 
     219Oct 04 18:59:37 <saste> if you remember please ping me, although I'm not sure i'll be able to mentor 
     220Oct 04 19:00:39 <llogan>        ubitux: you do need to sign up as a mentor. 
     221Oct 04 19:00:56 <ubitux>        erm, ok 
     222Oct 04 19:01:51 <michaelni>     saste, i only see juliet (ALS encoder) which i think is handled by paul & thilo 
     223Oct 04 19:02:12 <saste> michaelni, ok, and sorry for not being reactive in this period 
     224Oct 04 19:03:03 <ubitux>        do i have to do it after the qualification tasks? 
     225Oct 04 19:03:03 <llogan> 
     226Oct 04 19:03:03 <ubitux>        alright, this should be mentioned in our wiki 
     227Oct 04 19:03:17 <durandal_1707> there is opw page where ffmpeg stuff is tracked? 
     228Oct 04 19:04:40 <Holden>        Hello everyone, sorry for being late. I have one student candidate (myra) for the symmetric block ciphers project. She is going to submit her qualification task in the following days 
     229Oct 04 19:05:09 <Compn> durandal_1707 : we had a trac page for it , i thought? 
     230Oct 04 19:05:37 <llogan>        other project OPW pages can be seen here: 
     231Oct 04 19:05:37 <llogan> 
     232Oct 04 19:06:00 <ubitux>        i think we should make sure our students are aware that there are quite a bunch of applicants 
     233Oct 04 19:06:30 <ubitux>        and that despite how good they are and what they do, we'll pick only of them (maybe more if a miracle happens) 
     234Oct 04 19:07:13 <michaelni>     i think its likely that if we end with 5 highly qualified applicants that we would get more slots 
     235Oct 04 19:07:35 <michaelni>     also we dont have a single qualification task finished and submitted yet 
     236Oct 04 19:07:45 <michaelni>     not even a first iteration for a patch for one 
     237Oct 04 19:08:08 <michaelni>     so maybe dont yet drive applicants away ;) 
     238Oct 04 19:08:41 <michaelni>     but yes we should publish the information we have about the slots 
     239Oct 04 19:08:43 <llogan>        we could make a list of current applicants on the wiki page (and serve as a reminder for us) 
     240Oct 04 19:08:43 <ubitux>        i think each section has a field for that 
     241Oct 04 19:08:43 *       kriegerod ( has joined #ffmpeg-meeting 
     242Oct 04 19:08:44 <ubitux>        i should ask the subtitles candidates to add themselves 
     243Oct 04 19:09:10 <ubitux>        ok 
     244Oct 04 19:09:10 <michaelni>     yes all candidates should add themselfs 
     245Oct 04 19:11:18 <Compn> is there anything we can help with opw ? (my lazyness already regrets asking this) 
     246Oct 04 19:12:27 <ubitux>        what i mentioned above for the wiki 
     247Oct 04 19:12:31 <michaelni>     Compn, hmm theres always work to do, someone should document on our wiki what/if registering is needed for applicants & mentors 
     248Oct 04 19:13:13 <michaelni>     also, opw is not just limited to coding if someone still wants to mentor & add other tasks to the wiki 
     249Oct 04 19:14:16 <Compn> ok good to know 
     250Oct 04 19:14:55 <Compn> although we just got a website overhaul. maybe something could be done to ensure our docs are correct and all examples still work 
     251Oct 04 19:15:11 <Compn> although i think those were all added recently, so should be ok 
     252Oct 04 19:15:18 <llogan>        Compn: take a look at the other participating orgs OPW pages for some ideas, perhaps. i'd do it but i leave tomorrow for a week. 
     253Oct 04 19:15:25 <Compn> good idea 
     254Oct 04 19:19:10 <ubitux>        by the way, i don't know who fixed the pictures in the opw page, but thank you 
     255Oct 04 19:19:40 <ubitux>        are we done with the opw thing or there is more? 
     256Oct 04 19:20:12 <saste> who's going to decide what candidates to accept? 
     257Oct 04 19:20:32 <michaelni>     mentors i guess 
     258Oct 04 19:20:34 <saste> or in other words, what about the selection process? 
     259Oct 04 19:20:36 <Compn> mentors could do it as a group, or seperate ? 
     260Oct 04 19:20:57 <saste> michaelni, in case we have more than one valid candidate? 
     261Oct 04 19:20:58 <llogan>        doesn't sound like any of us read the OPW docs. maybe it provides guidelines? 
     262Oct 04 19:21:13 <Compn> llogan : no one rtfm ;P 
     263Oct 04 19:21:45 <saste> ok, so we have to clarify this point 
     264Oct 04 19:21:56 <saste> probably this is not the right place where to do it anyway... 
     265Oct 04 19:22:15 <michaelni>     id say mentors should discuss and find consensus of who to accept (is most likely successfull & will most likely continue contributing in the future) 
     266Oct 04 19:22:15 <llogan>        lets move on to next topic 
     267Oct 04 19:22:23 <saste> next topic 
     268Oct 04 19:22:40 <saste> 3. technical development issues  
     269Oct 04 19:22:46 <ubitux>        subtitles :( 
     270Oct 04 19:23:34 <saste> ubitux, i thought you was tired of subtitles, but then you surprised me again! :-D 
     271Oct 04 19:23:49 <ubitux>        yeah i don't know either 
     272Oct 04 19:24:03 <ubitux>        i felt motivated for some unknown reason so... 
     273Oct 04 19:24:08 <ubitux>        that might not last long but well 
     274Oct 04 19:25:14 <wm4>   hopefully you make it up to the point where ffmpeg can hardcode muxed subs 
     275Oct 04 19:25:22 <wm4>   it's embarrassing that ffmpeg can't do that 
     276Oct 04 19:28:25 <ubitux>        it can, but it's a pain 
     277Oct 04 19:28:25 <ubitux>        i think another very embarrassing thing is the dvd support 
     278Oct 04 19:28:25 <ubitux>        and maybe the exact seeking, which was requested several times 
     279Oct 04 19:28:25 <ubitux>        i mean... even mencoder is better at it 
     280Oct 04 19:28:25 <ubitux>        and somehow related, we also have needs for a better layering between protocols and formats 
     281Oct 04 19:28:25 <ubitux>        i can think of icecast or bluray, and maybe dvds 
     282Oct 04 19:28:25 <ubitux>        as usual, we seem to lack manpower though 
     283Oct 04 19:28:57 <saste> ubitux, yes 
     284Oct 04 19:30:10 <ubitux>        i mean even mencoder is better at dvd supports, that's a shame :P 
     285Oct 04 19:30:42 <saste> anybody tracking the libdvdread repo from videolan? 
     286Oct 04 19:30:59 <saste> my old patches were a bit of a mess 
     287Oct 04 19:31:20 <saste> libblurary is much easier to use in comparation 
     288Oct 04 19:31:45 <ubitux>        you should probably discuss this with j-b 
     289Oct 04 19:32:03 <ubitux>        another solution is to NIH it, but we'll probably get a bunch of hysterical nerds taunting us if we do that :) 
     290Oct 04 19:32:24 <saste> why NIH, we can just use the videolan repo 
     291Oct 04 19:32:37 <ubitux>        builtin, etc. 
     292Oct 04 19:32:39 <saste> it's not like we don't have nothing better to do 
     293Oct 04 19:32:41 <Compn> dvd support is requested feature. one of the reasons people still use mencoder 
     294Oct 04 19:32:58 <Compn> j-b would probably pay you to write new dvd lib 
     295Oct 04 19:33:05 <Compn> but it would also probably take a year to do... 
     296Oct 04 19:33:10 <saste> Compn, do we have a ticket for that? 
     297Oct 04 19:33:15 <Compn> (he hates libdvdread) 
     298Oct 04 19:33:19 <Compn> iirc  
     299Oct 04 19:33:33 <Compn> saste : for dvd:// in ffmpeg ? .i dont remember 
     300Oct 04 19:33:40 <ubitux>        saste: the dvd libs seems to have a very heavy historical burden, and a bunch of things might overlap with what we have in ffmpeg 
     301Oct 04 19:33:53 <ubitux>        so that's why i suggested this, but yeah, probably not a good idea 
     302Oct 04 19:34:12 <Compn> ubitux : if serious about nih, ask j-b , he may join in 
     303Oct 04 19:34:34 <ubitux>        i really don't have the time for that 
     304Oct 04 19:35:17 <ubitux>        btw, it would be nice of the dvd demuxer could output the subtitles :P 
     305Oct 04 19:39:11 <ubitux>        ah and, i'm midly interested in knowing what other developers work on 
     306Oct 04 19:39:45 <ubitux>        while i'm not asking for people to brag about it on irc like i do, developers assigning themselves to tickets might help 
     307Oct 04 19:39:49 <hawken>        Guys, I wanted to do MVC, and I found Britz's code but if someone with some more knowledge would team up with me it would be really awesome 
     308Oct 04 19:40:05 <ubitux>        so more people can have an overview on where the project is going 
     309Oct 04 19:40:25 <saste> ubitux, sorry to disappoint you, at the moment i'm doing almost nothing really relevant 
     310Oct 04 19:40:32 <ubitux>        :( 
     311Oct 04 19:40:44 <saste> (working on a day-job mostly unrelated project) 
     312Oct 04 19:41:06 <saste> my todo list is long, but still 
     313Oct 04 19:41:50 <saste> i think we should find some way of internal mentoring to help people working on a given task, in case he needs help 
     314Oct 04 19:42:10 <Compn> hawken : ask on the list probably... 
     315Oct 04 19:42:16 <saste> also sponsoring important issues, but that's not easy to fix  
     316Oct 04 19:42:18 <Compn> hawken : or troll some x264 guys to join you? 
     317Oct 04 19:42:21 <ubitux>        do we have a ticket for mvc? 
     318Oct 04 19:42:22 <hawken>        :P 
     319Oct 04 19:42:27 <hawken>        #3002 afaik 
     320Oct 04 19:42:41 <saste> Compn, can you create a ticket for dvd reading support? 
     321Oct 04 19:42:46 <Compn> saste : sire 
     322Oct 04 19:42:46 <ubitux>        hawken: looks unrelated 
     323Oct 04 19:42:48 <Compn> sure* 
     324Oct 04 19:42:49 <hawken>        Ah.. 
     325Oct 04 19:42:52 <hawken>        Was something in that range 
     326Oct 04 19:42:54 <hawken>        maybe 3004 
     327Oct 04 19:43:00 <ubitux>        saste, Compn are you sure we haven't one already? 
     328Oct 04 19:43:09 <hawken>        Damn.. not that one either 
     329Oct 04 19:43:11 <hawken>        I'll find it 
     330Oct 04 19:43:19 <hawken>        #3009 
     331Oct 04 19:43:30 <ubitux>        Compn: saste: 
     332Oct 04 19:43:59 <ubitux>        hawken: please participate in that ticket then 
     333Oct 04 19:44:16 <ubitux>        hawken: use it to centralize your knowledge/references of it 
     334Oct 04 19:44:31 <ubitux>        and then send a mail to ffmpeg-devel asking for more 
     335Oct 04 19:44:55 <ubitux>        Compn: good job, now please close it as duplicate 
     336Oct 04 19:44:56 <ubitux>        :p 
     337Oct 04 19:44:58 <Compn> ubitux : closed. 
     338Oct 04 19:45:00 <Compn> :P 
     339Oct 04 19:45:04 *       Compn afk 
     340Oct 04 19:46:07 <saste> anything else, or should we proceed to the next point? 
     341Oct 04 19:47:08 <saste> 4. misc topics  
     342Oct 04 19:47:14 <wm4>   <hawken> Guys, I wanted to do MVC, and I found Britz's code but if someone with some more knowledge would team up with me it would be really awesome <- didn't someone on Libav (koda) also do MVC? 
     343Oct 04 19:47:46 <ubitux>        i believe i pointed him to koda already yeah 
     344Oct 04 19:49:18 <ubitux>        on a misc. topic, i'd like to mention that some libass developers (hello rcombs) are kind of working on a new standardization of the ASS subtitles format/markup 
     345Oct 04 19:49:47 <rcombs>        'ehlo 
     346Oct 04 19:50:22 <kierank>       wm4: koda just did some libav cleaning 
     347Oct 04 19:50:27 <kierank>       didn't actually work on mvc 
     348Oct 04 19:50:33 <michaelni>     hawken, also maybe ask/contact Peter Wimmer and Gerion Entrup, i do see mails from them about MVC on the ML 
     349Oct 04 19:50:50 <ubitux>        this concerns FFmpeg because we might probably use it as our internal representation of decoded subtitles when the time comes 
     350Oct 04 19:50:50 <ubitux>        of course, currently the goal is to switch to a proper sane ASSv4 instead of the hack we currently have 
     351Oct 04 19:59:13 <saste> uh i think we shall move to the next topics 
     352Oct 04 19:59:26 <saste> assuming people is not already sleeping :-) 
     353Oct 04 19:59:30 <hawken>        wm4: Couldn't find anything on google with koda, MVC and libav as keywords :P 
     354Oct 04 20:00:01 <saste> who knows the name of koda? 
     355Oct 04 20:00:20 <saste> hawken, that's also because #libav-devel logs are not archived 
     356Oct 04 20:00:23 <saste> IIRC 
     357Oct 04 20:00:54 *       durandal_1707 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) 
     358Oct 04 20:01:13 <hawken>        AH, well it says here "<nevcairiel> its something a student wrote for a thesis without a care in the world for style or whatnot koda from libav has been trying to untangle the decoder for a while as well" 
     359Oct 04 20:01:24 <hawken>        So that's basically the same code that I cleaned up 
     360Oct 04 20:01:25 <ubitux>        saste: koda is Vittorio Giovara <> 
     361Oct 04 20:02:01 <hawken>        But I didn't get so far as to apply it to current codebase, but I made a patch that looked nice for the version he started working on 
     362Oct 04 20:02:04 <hawken>        if anyone are interested 
     363Oct 04 20:02:08 <saste> ubitux, thanks 
     364Oct 04 20:03:32 <llogan>        hawken: you could always post stuff to ffmpeg-devel as [RFC] request for comment if you need help, etc. 
     365Oct 04 20:04:03 <llogan>        "stuff" being patches that you intend to eventually send to ffmpeg-devel 
     366Oct 04 20:04:09 <saste> hawken, yes post a patch as an RFC if it's still not ready, and ping it until you get some attention 
     367Oct 04 20:04:17 <saste> hopefully someone will be able to help 
     368Oct 04 20:04:30 <hawken>        It segfaulted though ^_^ 
     369Oct 04 20:04:33 <hawken>        mhm 
     370Oct 04 20:04:40 <hawken>        sorry to take up your time, please proceed :P 
     371Oct 04 20:05:07 <saste> next topic is: misc topics 
     372Oct 04 20:05:15 <saste> whatever was not covered in the previous ones 
     373Oct 04 20:05:31 <ubitux>        what i said about libass development 
     374Oct 04 20:05:58 <ubitux>        some people might be interested, and might want to request stuff for the next standard 
     375Oct 04 20:06:18 <ubitux>        typically, i asked for ruby character/furigana support, because webvtt has such support 
     376Oct 04 20:06:29 <ubitux>        and we need it for the decoded form of the webvtt subtitles 
     377Oct 04 20:06:48 <ubitux>        anyway, just a random misc topic 
     378Oct 04 20:07:30 <michaelni>     about misc, someone should update fateserver to allow displaying only a specific release or master 
     379Oct 04 20:08:14 <michaelni>     daemon404 wanted to look into it but then became very busy ... 
     380Oct 04 20:08:22 <llogan>        maybe timothy would be interested. 
     381Oct 04 20:08:54 <michaelni>     he wasnt when i asked week(s) ago but maybe that changed  
     382Oct 04 20:09:25 <wm4>   apropos debian: "Still, due to (it's not really a bug, but the Debian security team doesn't want to have to deal with both libav and ffmpeg in the stable release, and at this point it's too late to switch to ffmpeg) the ffmpeg packages aren't going to be in the next Debian release" 
     383Oct 04 20:11:49 <_aca__>        wm4: unless we convince them 
     384Oct 04 20:12:15 <saste> about IRC meetings, should we have a plan and have regular meetings, or just discuss them when there seem to be a need? 
     385Oct 04 20:12:50 <ubitux>        saste: no opinion, maybe post releases could be nice 
     386Oct 04 20:13:04 <saste> the past one was in January 
     387Oct 04 20:13:20 <llogan>        i don't have a strong option, but i would like them to move along at a slightly faster pace 
     388Oct 04 20:13:51 <ubitux>        ah and i have another suggestion 
     389Oct 04 20:13:51 <saste> and RL meetings seem not very realistic at this point (but there are several FLOSS events when we could meet) 
     390Oct 04 20:14:03 <ubitux>        the archlinux distribution is doing some kind of "bug day" 
     391Oct 04 20:15:58 <saste> ubitux, how does it work? 
     392Oct 04 20:16:12 <saste> we proposed such things in the past but they never worked 
     393Oct 04 20:16:17 <ubitux>        where basically the project focus on fixing bug for one day or two 
     394Oct 04 20:16:40 <saste> like the proposal to sponsor popular/old issue fixing  
     395Oct 04 20:16:48 <saste> ubitux, why not anyway 
     396Oct 04 20:17:01 <ubitux>        users come to give a hand or complain 
     397Oct 04 20:17:01 <ubitux>        (they open a room for such thing) 
     398Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>        i don't know if they continue to do that though 
     399Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>        but it was a thing at some point 
     400Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>        i thought it wasn't a bad idea, and it might be a good opportunity to talk with our users 
     401Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>        not sure how relevant this is, just an idea. 
     402Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>        they do a news on the website 
     403Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>        saying "hey next saturday we do a bug day, come join us on #archlinux-bugs" 
     404Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>        yeah i see 
     405Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux> seems it didn't last long actually 
     406Oct 04 20:17:02 <ubitux>        oh well. 
     407Oct 04 20:17:56 <saste> well we can try 
     408Oct 04 20:18:08 <michaelni>     agree 
     409Oct 04 20:18:22 <llogan>        yes. pick a date, make a wiki page. 
     410Oct 04 20:18:29 <michaelni>     also about regular meetings i think its a good idea 
     411Oct 04 20:18:35 <Loriker>       yes 
     412Oct 04 20:18:50 <saste> michaelni, every six or three months? 
     413Oct 04 20:18:59 <michaelni>     saste, yes ;) 
     414Oct 04 20:19:28 <saste> at the current rate we have ~2 meetings per year 
     415Oct 04 20:19:44 <saste> if you have too many, people start to get bored 
     416Oct 04 20:20:10 <saste> in case of ffmpeg having regular meetings is important since many contributors don't track irc regularly 
     417Oct 04 20:20:44 <saste> should we call the end of the meeting? 
     418Oct 04 20:20:46 <michaelni>     i have no oppinon of how often as i dont really have a feeling what is better ... 
     419Oct 04 20:21:15 <llogan>        saste: thanks for herding us 
     420Oct 04 20:22:02 <saste> anything else? 
     421Oct 04 20:22:12 *       ubitux has nothing to add 
     422Oct 04 20:22:50 <saste> ok, we should publish the log, probably on the wiki and send an email on ffmpeg-devel 
     423Oct 04 20:22:59 <michaelni>     ok 
     424Oct 04 20:23:06 <saste> 
     425Oct 04 20:23:31 *       llogan (~llogan@pdpc/supporter/student/pasteeater) has left #ffmpeg-meeting 
     426Oct 04 20:23:55 <saste> I can do it this night, feel free to beat me at it 
     427Oct 04 20:24:21 *       hawken ( has left #ffmpeg-meeting 
     428Oct 04 20:24:33 *       ubitux ( has left #ffmpeg-meeting 
     429Oct 04 20:24:42 <saste> thanks all for joining the meeting! 
     430Oct 04 20:25:11 <saste> have a nice day/evening/night! 
     431Oct 04 20:26:06 <Loriker>       thx for organizing the meeting - cu and have a good time 
     432Oct 04 20:28:37 <michaelni>     thanks to all and bye 
     433Oct 04 20:28:41 *       michaelni ( has left #ffmpeg-meeting ("Leaving") 
     434Oct 04 20:29:28 *       Loriker ( has left #ffmpeg-meeting 
     435**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct  4 20:30:06 2014